Episode Playlist
Cult Chat - Ep 50 - What is Mandated Shunning? with Dr Windy Grendele & Dr Savin Bapir-Tardy Pt1( 0:52:3)
Episode Information
Savin and Windy are researchers from Roehampton University who study shunning and its impacts. In today’s episode Lindy and our guests define shunning and discuss how shunning is used deliberately as a tool by coercively controlling groups to threaten and impose social death for those who question the rules. Savin and Windy introduce listeners to their research, and the movement sweeping the world to make mandated shunning a crime. This episode is the first of four in a mini series on shunning.
Published: 31/12/2024 6:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 49 - Cults and Healthcare - Gina Catena Pt2 ( 0:54:20)
Episode Information
This is the second episode with Gina, who was raised in a cult which discourages members from seeking medical care. She describes how she slowly changed her view of health to the scientific world view, as she trained to be a medical professional. She shares stories of working as a clinician with people from cults, and some helpful tips for how medical professionals can gain the trust of people who have faulty health beliefs.
Published: 17/12/2024 7:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 48 - Gina Catena - Healthcare and cults Pt1 ( 0:49:24)
Episode Information
Caz interviews Gina, a nurse practitioner and midwife from California. Gina grew up in a cult which discouraged mainstream evidence-based health treatments, in favour of non-scientific treatments. Gina talks about growing up in the group and watching people die to suicide, or suffering from treatable health conditions because the group did not allow Western medical care. This first episode of two starts the conversation about how cults can damage the body, as well as the mind.
Published: 3/12/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 47 - Unmasking Cults( 0:53:54)
Episode Information
On 23 October Liz, Lindy and Caz hosted a dinner event at Parliament called "Unmasking Cults." We were delighted that a range of dignitaries, ministers, and representatives of key services in New Zealand were interested in hearing about, and hopefully take action to address, the harms that cults cause across New Zealand. Listen to our hosts - along with guest host Dr Janja Lalich - share some of their recollections of this event at the Beehive, outline some of the other presentations, and offer their hopes for future change driven from the center of power in New Zealand.
Published: 19/11/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 46 - Deculting with Janja Lalich ( 0:54:40)
Episode Information
Decult 2024, the first ever New Zealand cult awareness conference, held in Christchurch over 19-20 October, smashed it out of the park! Join Liz, Caz, Lindy and cult expert (Decult keynote speaker) Dr Janja Lalich, as they talk about the highlights of the conference, and how this remarkable event has contributed to a critical conversation. In this episode Liz says, “The problem is more pervasive than your average kiwi recognises.” Too right, Liz! Let's keep the conversation going!
Published: 5/11/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 45 - Mary Garden, Gurus Galore Pt2 - 22 Oct 2024( 0:52:0)
Episode Information
*Trigger warning for this episode’s content*. We continue the second part of Caz’s interview with Mary Garden, talking about how her swami revealed himself to not be the benign, peaceful, celibate yogi that he appeared to be, but instead a violent, tantrum-throwing psychopath with sexually predatory intent. Mary talks about trauma, waking up, and the gift of writing her story, returning to herself and learning that she did not need a guru in the end after all.
Published: 22/10/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 44 - Mary Garden, Gurus Galore Pt1 - 8 Oct 2024( 0:52:50)
Episode Information
Mary Garden was a seeker in her 20s, finding her way to India to three different gurus - Sai Baba, Swami Balyogi Premvarni, and Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Mary tells her story, unpacking the historical context that left her longing for more, and the personal context which primed her for recruitment. Our hosts then chat about recruitment, the suppression of intellect and critical thinking required by gurus, and malignant teachers who gain enormously from the submission and supplication of seekers.
Published: 8/10/2024 9:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 43 - Royal Commission into Abuse and the intersection with cults - 24 Sept 2024( 0:55:19)
Episode Information
The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Faith-Based and State-Based Care investigated what happened to children,
young people and adults in NZ in these care settings during 1950 to 1999. The final report - Whanaketia - was released on 25 June.
The extent of the findings are beyond imaginable. Lindy, Liz and Caz all have personal reasons to care about the findings of this report.
In this discussion they talk about Whanaketia and how the findings relate to cults in New Zealand operating now.
Published: 24/09/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 42 - Dr Janja Lalich on making sense of cults - 10 Sept 2024( 0:54:53)
Episode Information
Dr Janja Lalich, leading cult researcher and sociologist, author of several books about cults including “Take Back Your Life”, talks with Liz and shares her Bounded Choice Framework. They talk about moral injury and accountability, the way cults arrest the development of children, and the importance of support and psychological care after leaving a cult. This chat comes in the lead up to Dr Lalich’s October visit to New Zealand for multiple speaking engagements, including the Decult Conference.
Published: 10/09/2024 7:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 41 - Healthy Versus Harmful: How can you tell?( 0:53:57)
Episode Information
If you’ve been wondering if your book club is actually a cult, then this episode is for you! Settle in as our hosts chat about the green flags for healthy groups - borrowing extensively from the work of Dr Janja Lalich, in her book “Escaping Utopia”. The girls try very hard to focus on the flourishing, nourishing and encouraging qualities present in a healthy group and how they are different from harmful groups, but of course, they definitely talk about cults! They can’t help themselves!
Published: 27/08/2024 7:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 40 - Dr Gillie Jenkinson - Cult Recovery, Training Therapists and visiting NZ( 0:50:39)
Episode Information
Lindy chats with Dr Gillie Jenkinson, UK psychotherapist, trainer of therapists, and author of “Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Growth.” Gillie talks about her personal history in a cult, her realization that the only way to get some decent resources for the cult recovery journey was to develop them herself, and the excitement she is feeling as she plans the last details for her trip to New Zealand in October. She will be speaking at Decult and running workshops for therapists. We can’t wait to see her!
Published: 13/08/2024 11:15:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 39 - Cult Chat Goes to Barcelona Pt2( 0:49:20)
Episode Information
Liz and Caz learnt so much at the International Cultic Studies Association conference in Barcelona that they had to do another episode on it! Listen in as they tell Lindy all about the fascinating anti-cult activists and educators they met and the breaking research they learnt about. In this episode they chat about coercive control in the home, the process of waking up for cultists, the impacts on the second generation, the stages on the road to recovery, and the health care that leavers need.
Published: 5/08/2024 1:31:25 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 38 - International Cultic Studies Association Conference - Highlights from Barcelona Pt1( 0:52:16)
Episode Information
What were Liz and Caz doing in Barcelona recently? Apart from chowing down on tapas and sipping on their drink of choice, the girls hob-knobbed with leading international authorities on cults and coercive control at the International Cultic Studies Association annual conference. In this episode Liz and Caz download all their new learnings to Lindy who sadly had to stay at home. Join us to hear them chat about up to date international research in the cultiverse and how their own presentations went.
Published: 30/07/2024 12:31:33 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 37 - Why Do Therapists Need to Learn About Cults?( 0:55:11)
Episode Information
Do therapists have the skills needed to support the recovery of cult leavers? Yes! Do they understand the significance of the cult context? Hmmm, maybe not. In this episode, Lindy and Liz discuss the workshop they recently lead where they taught a room of mental health workers all about cult recovery. Listen in as they tell Caz all about it, share some tips for therapists working with cult-leavers, and explain why therapists should consider upskilling in cult recovery.
Published: 16/07/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 36 - Sarah Mettrick Pt2 - Teenage recruitment and lost milestones( 0:59:10)
Episode Information
We’re back again to finish our conversation with Sarah Mettrick, former Sri Chinmoy disciple, who was recruited into the Sri Chinmoy Centre as a fourteen year old. Sarah tells us about her emotional stunting as a teenage cultist, and how after she got out, she found herself trying to figure out who she was in her early 30s. This second episode gives massive insight into the developmental disruption that occurs when teenagers get recruited into a cult. You won’t want to miss this episode!
Show notes:
Book - “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steve Hassan
Book - “Hearken O Daughter” by Grace J Adams and Poia Alpha
Published: 2/07/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 34 - Healing Trauma: A day with Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk( 0:58:1)
Episode Information
Recently Caz, Liz and Lindy spent a day with renowned trauma expert, Dr Bessel Van Der Kolk, author of “The Body Keeps the Score”. Our trio unpack their day of learning, and talk about the impact of trauma on the body, on memory, on recovery and why it is important in the context of cults. Using their hastily scribbled notes, they discuss neurophysiology, EMDR, neurofeedback, and a bunch of other technical stuff. Listen up if you’ve an interest in the mind-body connection and trauma recovery.
Published: 4/06/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 33 - Sam Jahara Pt3 - Truth, Acknowledgment and Repair - 21 May 2024 ( 0:51:10)
Episode Information
What do you do if someone you love won’t acknowledge the harm that you experienced - the harm they may have caused? How long do you wait, and is there another way to move on? In this third episode Sam and Caz talk about the yearning for acknowledgement and reparation that follows betrayal, especially betrayal as a child. Join this final conversation with Sam and Caz, as they grapple with hurts left behind, relationships that may never be repaired, and their own creative pursuits for justice.
Published: 21/05/2024 7:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 32 - Sam Jahara Pt2 - Recovery for Rajneesh+Centrepoint Children -7 May 2024( 0:55:6)
Episode Information
Decades after leaving a cult, what is life like for a child cult survivor? How does she build identity and integrate into the outside world? In this second episode of Caz and Sam Jahara’s intimate conversation, the two discuss these concerns and more. They talk about the resources needed to recover and thrive, the wounds left by neglect and abuse, and the unique challenges those born or raised in a cult must navigate. This vulnerable second part of a three-part conversation is not to be missed.
Published: 7/05/2024 6:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 31 - Sam Jahara Pt1 - The children of Rajneesh and Centrepoint( 0:55:59)
Episode Information
Caz speaks with UK psychotherapist Sam Jahara about her years as a child living in the communes of the Indian guru Rajneesh. They explore how the Rajneesh movement was similar in many difficult ways to the Centrepoint Community that Caz was involved with as a child. This is the first episode of a three part interview between two women exploring the long term effects that cults have on children. Listen up if you care about accountability, repair and the impacts of cults on kids.
Published: 23/04/2024 11:15:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 30 - Escaping Utopia Pt3 - The Storytellers of Centrepoint and Gloriavale( 0:55:34)
Episode Information
Join Caz, as she interviews two accidental cult investigators about two notorious NZ cults. The first is Natalie Malcon, producer of “Escaping Utopia” the recent Gloriavale docuseries, and “Heaven & Hell; The Centrepoint Story”. The second is Anke Richter, journalist and author of “Cult Trip”, a deep dive into the complexity of both Gloriavale and Centrepoint. This conversation between three cult activists, each using a different medium to shine light on cult harm, will be eye opening.
Published: 16/04/2024 6:30:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 29 - Escaping Utopia Pt2 - Gloriavale DocuSeries - A Chat with Cast and Crew ( 0:55:49)
Episode Information
Join Liz as she chats with ex-Gloriavale film participant Rosanna Overcomer and film producer Natalie Malcon about the recent Escaping Utopia docuseries. We give you a glimpse “behind the scenes” into the film’s journey to the screens, set design, casting, meticulous re-enactments, as well as the personal challenge of sharing one's story. We also delve into the ethical dilemmas of filming undercover scenes in India, sparking thought-provoking discussions on filmmaking and media responsibilities.
Published: 9/04/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat -Ep 28 - Escaping Utopia Pt1 ( 0:57:36)
Episode Information
BONUS EPISODE!!! Episode 28 Have you seen the eye-opening three-part TV docu-series “Escaping Utopia” that hit NZ this past week? Join Caz, Liz, and Lindy for a candid discussion as they share their reflections. Gain insight into the complexities of escaping Gloriavale and the support systems aiding those transitioning to freedom. Listen in as we uncover the resilience and courage of individuals breaking free from a closed community, and see the plight of group of members who are part of an Indian Gloriavale Community which has never featured on our screens before.
Published: 2/04/2024 6:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 27 - Tore Klevjer (Pt 2) - Recovering from the trauma of cult harm( 0:55:3)
Episode Information
Lindy chats again with Tore, president of Cult Information and Family Support Australia. Tore explains some of the supports CIFS offers leavers of cult groups. The two talk about the importance of group support for ex-cultists, why cult leavers need psycho-education about cults, and how critical it is for survivors to talk to someone who understands. Tore explains why therapists need to be trained in the unique impacts of cults in order to deliver therapy which addresses a cult leaver’s needs.
Published: 26/03/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 26 - A chat with Tore Klevjer (Pt 1) - Ex-cultist turned therapist ( 0:54:14)
Episode Information
This week we share a fascinating discussion between Tore Klevjer and Lindy, both passionate advocates for victims of cultic harm, who also each have complementary roles in organizations which support leavers. Tore shares his experience of being recruited into a group, and how he found his way out ten years later with his family. In this episode the duo discuss regrets, doubts and shame, and how to find a way forward as a family unit - while staying intact - after leaving a cult.
Published: 12/03/2024 8:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 25 - Coercive Control - Is It Legal? ( 0:47:51)
Episode Information
What do a doctor, a lawn enthusiast, and an amateur photographer all have in common? Almost no understanding of the law! Join us for this episode as Caz, Liz and Lindy bumble their way through various international laws on coercive control, and ask themselves - and you, the listener - exactly what it will take for New Zealand law-makers to recognise how harmful group coercive control is, and provide protection for NZ citizens against it within the law.
Published: 27/02/2024 10:00:00 a.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 24 - Coercive Control - What Is It?( 0:56:56)
Episode Information
What do a woman abused by her intimate partner, a member of a cult group, and a prisoner of war in North Korea in the 1950s all have in common? Listen to this episode to find out! As you listen you’ll also learn interesting facts about venn diagrams, storm-troopers and the joys of lawn-mowing. This episode features a culty analysis of 1950’s researcher Albert Biderman’s fascinating yet chilling “Chart of Coercion”, with tips from our hosts on how to recognise it in action in a cult.
Published: 13/02/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Ep 23 - A chat with Sarah Steel - cult podcaster, author and activist( 0:50:27)
Episode Information
Join us this week for a chat with Sarah Steel, writer and producer of the acclaimed podcast series “Let’s Talk About Sects”. Listen as our hosts do some serious fan-girling in Sarah’s direction! After 6 seasons of her podcast and a book on the topic Sarah has learnt a thing or two about cult podcasting, she’s got some ideas about how to make things better, and some tips for our hosts on how to navigate the cultiverse.
Published: 30/01/2024 1:00:00 p.m.
Cult Chat - Episode 19: Safeguarding Children( 0:56:15)
Episode Information
Caroline, Liz and Lindy discuss cultishness, coercion and control, talk to survivors of cult -like groups in New Zealand, and delve into why we all need to cult-proof our lives.
Published: 5/12/2023 1:00:00 p.m.